Curse

Uncle Goldfish · Aug 29, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

When I was on the european server i had supreme lag problems and after returning to the american they have gone. It seemed as if america was more priveliged than europe so they cant have good servers. mayb this is y peeps r leaving!!

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 30, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

...and today Europe held favor during peak hours again...

Not unless you call 10pm-2am peak hours...

Guillaume De Sonoma · Aug 30, 2005, 12:59 AM // 00:59

I think that americans are going to the europe serves because when i went there no forgien languages what so ever, but earlier that day i was talking to the frenchies from europe while playing on an american team and that was when i decide to say everyhting in french.

Jay236 · Aug 30, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

[Edit] nevermind.

Red Sonya · Aug 30, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I bet that seeing so many people state that they've never or almost never been to the WaW maps is scary reading to ANet.
The fight for the WaW maps is supposed to be a big deal, one of the biggest carrots to keep people playing, not a non-issue where two side always have access during peak hours, and one side never have access during peak hours.

Also, I'm curious... You guys who don't do PvP, why don't you?
For me, what has made it difficult for me to get into PvP is the insanely high initial difficulty and the sneaking suspicion that individual (as opposed to team) skill actually doesn't mean anything at all.

I had this idea that there should be an arena where you can toy around with builds by fighting hench-teams. And some sort of ranking system so newbie players like myself don't have to go up against the elite.

The only pvping I ever do anymore is random 4x4, I got tired of waiting to get in a group and having to have ts or vent. When I sit down to play a game I'm ready to play not stand around for an hour or two waiting until someone is willing to play in PUGS. TS/VENT has ruined HOH for me at least and I suspect many others by now. It's just no fun standing around waiting to get in a group. So I random pvp and I've made tons of faction points playing random pvp, a lot more than I ever did trying to play HOH.

GvG is starting to be a joke as well since most people once again are looking for the easy win and just getting people to fight against you becomes another waiting game as well. They should promote random GvG as well or random 8x8 for that matter.

Most people are going to filter to where they get the most entertainment for their time, HOH doesn't do that for the majority of players, thus, many just stick with the PVE game and or random PVP arenas. I've noticed the population of random 4x4 is really high compared to the zones for HOH anymore. The only real value of HOH is the "favor" for UW/FOW, take that away and what is rank/fame worth? There's no prizes, no benefits other than winning sigels and eventually everyone that has a guild is going to have a guild hall so sigils will have little value then as well except selling to npc merchants and with the ability to solo UW, lol, one can make more money doing that than trying to win a sigil. And for most one can make more faction playing in random pvp than they ever could in HOH or GvG. People will filter to what gives them the most for their time played.

Willow · Aug 30, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I know when I played Tombs during the PvP extreme event, when one would expect a disproportionate ammount of players of all nationalities, Europe was holding the Hall.

I thought it was darkly funny to see comments from my teammates like:
"We're going to beat those friggin Koreans"
"What? Europe???"
"We're going to beat those friggin... Europeans."

trelloskilos · Aug 30, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Faithman

And as of Midnight GMT, still holds favour

Just a shame I waited for 25 minutes to get in a team to FoW only for the team leader to run off and pay........and we found ourselves in UW

TWICE!!!

Rich

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

john little · Aug 30, 2005, 08:28 AM // 08:28

The way i'd tweak the WaW system is to change it from being an all or nothing proposition to a 'if you win you get more time, if you lose your access is limited'. I'd have it so that every player is allowed to enter UW and Fissure for one hour. That time is increased every time one continent/country wins to a maximum of 24hrs. The time counter would only count down once you've entered one of the missions, a fixed time hurts casual players and those that are forced to play on servers outside their region (such as Australians f.ex). The timer would be reset each day.

I like the WaW system, it adds more to HoH. I just feel that at the moment it's too geared up towards all or nothing style play.

Fantus · Aug 30, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Also, I'm curious... You guys who don't do PvP, why don't you?

Oh, I do PvP - I just don't do Tombs, for reasons quite similar to what Red Sonya wrote in her post above. I tried Tombs a few times and was utterly disappointed by the experience. I do PvP for the same reason why I do PvE - for fun! Tombs aren't fun. It's full of people who don't play to have fun, they play to win. I am not a competitive sort of player, I am able to laugh at my myself when my team got utterly destroyed by a better team. Tombs players will start name calling instead. Occassionally you will see this in Random Arena too, but nowhere near this likely than in Tombs. The overcompetitive attitude of the (at least that's what I am thinking) FPS crowd that thought GW was some kind of "Fantasy Counterstrike" prevents fun oriented players like me to even find a team there in a reasonable time. I don't have TS. I don't want to use TS. Yes, I know that TS might make your team 5% more powerful compared to just using target calling and map painting. I don't care. I don't want to become a cyborg while playing. I also don't have a rank. I like to think that after winning several hundred matches in Arenas I am not a total noob in PvP, but playing in Arena doesn't give you fame or rank. Without a rank you can yell "LFG" in Tombs for all eternity and nobody will take you in. Arenas are instant fun, just press a button and you are in. To me (as in "my personal opinion, you might disagree"), Tombs is NOT the King of PvP - Random Arena is. Because unlike as in Tombs, you can't really run a perfectly coordinated and throroughy planned "Theme Build" over and over again. You have to adapt to a new situation every single time you enter and to play with people you have never seen before. I like that.

THAT's, in short, why I don't do PvP in Tombs.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 30, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Not unless you call 10pm-2am peak hours...

Didn't they have favor around 8-ish or so? I paid an avatar for blessings while out PvE'ing, and I don't think that was as late as 10. Might've been though (yes, I play too much).

Fantus · Aug 30, 2005, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Didn't they have favor around 8-ish or so? I paid an avatar for blessings while out PvE'ing, and I don't think that was as late as 10. Might've been though (yes, I play too much).

Yesterday EU got favor quite early and held it quite long. It was the very first time I have seen anything like this since I have switched over to US server a month ago. I'd think it to be premature to think that will be the case every evening now...

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 30, 2005, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

, if you lose your access is limited'. I'd have it so that every player is allowed to enter UW and Fissure for one hour.

Not a bad idea. But can you imagine the 'spike' on the servers when your hour was coming up?

It was really good to see a dev turn up and ask us to contribute but I think we now need more than Frog hints to stop people switching. What is going to be done with all this information, that in reality AN must know themselves?

For Goodness sake Anet stop playing secrets with us and let us know why we should'nt switch to the US (and sorry a weekend of favor is'nt good enough if thats what you are planning).

I would humbly request that those who dont know how sparse Europe is and how much the current system is hurting that region Pve(and PVP) wise use one of their switches and find out. Even better if someone from Anet would spend a week or 2 on there and see how badly the current system is working.

Give extra faction/fame bonus's to Favour holders and make access to the FoW/UW unsrestricted so we can all enjoy the most challenging PvE areas of the game.

Added:

Yes, Eu held favor for a long period of time(well 5 hours) but that was the first time in nearly 4 weeks. Mostly it's only been 2-3 hours every 3 or 4 days tho. I suspect the reason is the change in skills so that teamwise it was more level. I don't expect this to remain so, as there are way more teams on the US servers and sooner or later it'll go back to the US having it 20 hours a day.

What I really would like to see are logs of when and where favor changes over a week or even a month. That would give us an accurate picture on which to base our assumptions on.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 30, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Oh, I do PvP - I just don't do Tombs, for reasons quite similar to what Red Sonya wrote in her post above. I tried Tombs a few times and was utterly disappointed by the experience. I do PvP for the same reason why I do PvE - for fun! Tombs aren't fun. It's full of people who don't play to have fun, they play to win.

Actually that is exactly why I don't play Tombs either. The uber-competitiveness is a major turnoff for me. Which is perhaps strange coming from a person who played quake3 competitively enough to briefly make #120 on the world ranking, but I've never really had that cut-throat attitude to winning. When I play poorly I get angry, but I get angry with my peformance.

Quote:

I am not a competitive sort of player, I am able to laugh at my myself when my team got utterly destroyed by a better team. Tombs players will start name calling instead. Occassionally you will see this in Random Arena too, but nowhere near this likely than in Tombs. The overcompetitive attitude of the (at least that's what I am thinking) FPS crowd that thought GW was some kind of "Fantasy Counterstrike" prevents fun oriented players like me to even find a team there in a reasonable time.

Seriously, it's not the fps crowd. I've played tons of fps's, and while there's some asshats, the general attitude isn't abusive or excessively competitive. I think the namecallers are the Diablo2 crowd - the "battle.net kiddies" were considered the epitome of no-honor, abusiveness & rampant cheating long before GW came out.

Quote:

Tombs is NOT the King of PvP - Random Arena is. Because unlike as in Tombs, you can't really run a perfectly coordinated and throroughy planned "Theme Build" over and over again.

Heavily specialized builds don't work in random arenas, so you need to build to be able to cope with a wide range of situations.
Random Arena = generalist builds ftw.
Tombs = specialist builds ftw.
As I am an individualist, RA suits me fine when I want to do some PvP'ing.

spondy · Aug 30, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

I'd have it so that every player is allowed to enter UW and Fissure for one hour.

If you mean to have a 'happy hour' for UW and FoW it wouldn't work. There'd be so many people cramping ToA it wouldn't be funny, not to mention server spikes.

It'd be much better, going on your idea, if every account had a 'quota'. Everyone has one hour per day to play it, which rolls over to the next day if you don't use your time. If you region wins in HoH you get some more time. To keep the US winning every HoH battle, perhaps give quota rewards to entrants. The quota could instead be for times you may enter UW or FoW. You can enter 3 times each day say, and gain more entry points as your region wins or participates in HoH.

Compte · Aug 30, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Hi, I'm french, playing in the euro and also regrets the scarse amount of time euro region is allowed to play in the FoW and UW (5% of my play time and i stack up more than 400 hours).

While the concept of the favor is brilliant, it has really come to a point where euro players have 2 less map contents than americans and koreans. I've heard of many account switchs to US servers as a consequence of this and all in all it IS actually making a leak in euro players...

Yes yes call me a whinner but you'll probably say the same thing if your statues in the temple of the ages where never lit with the favor... Think about it...

I wouldn't suggest dropping this favor thingy but instead a reward based on how much time you haven't hold the favor. Let's say that Europe hasn't had it for 30 hours (which is an average), when they get it, the FoW and the UW would spread MUCH BETTER drops than simply demonic remains all the time (thinking on more gold items/ectos/shards).

This is what i think, hoping that Anet will come by this topic...

Pandanslesdents · Aug 30, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by john little

The way i'd tweak the WaW system is to change it from being an all or nothing proposition to a 'if you win you get more time, if you lose your access is limited'. I'd have it so that every player is allowed to enter UW and Fissure for one hour. That time is increased every time one continent/country wins to a maximum of 24hrs. The time counter would only count down once you've entered one of the missions, a fixed time hurts casual players and those that are forced to play on servers outside their region (such as Australians f.ex). The timer would be reset each day.

That would not fix the imbalance that currently exist. Americans would still be able to enter it for hours at a time everyday. Europeans and coreans would still be able to enter it only one hour everyday... And one hour to explore those 2 zones is ridiculously too short. It would be boring to redo the same small fraction of UW day after day.

What is needed is an alternative way to enter theses PvE zones that is fair for every PvE players that have absolutely no interrest in PvP playing.

Otherwise, more and more coreans and europeans PvE players will move to the US servers, or will quit playing the game completely. I'm pretty sure Anet/NCSoft don't want that to happen. Loosing many thousands of players that will not buy the future expensions would hurt them bad.

Kabale · Aug 30, 2005, 11:18 AM // 11:18

I think that would cause a lot of the Euro players coming back to the Euro servers, but also a lot of Americans and Koreans... Don't think it's a good idea... People going back and forth all the time :S

edwinna elbert · Aug 30, 2005, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Europe held the favor last night for at least six hours (8pm-2am+), and it wasn't Guild teams either, at least not much of the time. To be honest I don't see why Europe can't own the Tombs at this time every day; all the Koreans should be in bed and all the Americans should be just getting up

Of course, the problem is that the real hardcore mentalist players never sleep...

Quote:

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

I've visited (and finished) the fissure countless times and completed the whole underworld once but done the first half of it many more times. I got my Fissure armour (through hard work and item collecting) a few weeks ago.

Quote:

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

The most common time for Europe to hold the favour is 2am+, I should really be sleeping at that time, but I'm usually not.

Quote:

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

We play tombs every day and consistently get to the higher (golden) levels of the tournament with ease. Our tactics are solid, but when we meet a group with equally good tactics but more organisation, we get smacked down fast.

Hippie Crack · Aug 30, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by trelloskilos

....and now with PvPX weekend, and the tweaking of skills, it's going to be even more difficult for Europe to get in.

I'm not going to comment on any particular PvP tournament team, but it's a known fact that many PvP teams who gain favour do so by abusing spirit spamming. Now that this is out of the window, the gloves are off.

Now, I know nothing whatsoever about how the victorious Euro-guilds like Esoteric Warriors get their results, but whether they are spirit spammers or not becomes a moot point. The reliability of ALL tournament teams has suddenly become shaky, and people encouraged by the PvPX event are forming new teams.

Now, the ratio of players on the US and Korean servers to the players on Euro servers is the issue here. A similar pattern will emerge on all 3 servers. New teams, new builds, new developments etc., but due to the smaller scale of players on the Euro server, the number of new teams/builds etc will be naturally scaled down.

Only those that have had previous experience in HoH, and who can work around the update will prevail. If guilds like Esoteric Warriors weren't spirit spamming, then Europe have a good fighting chance. If Esoterics and other Euro Tournament winners were spirit spamming, then it could be a looooong time before Europe see favour again.

Yes they used spirit spam. Alot of the EW members left and made the new guild that you used to see win the hall often called "Natures Renewal". Now spirit spam is gone they havent won since.

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 30, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

No, EW never used spirit spam, I played against them, I know one of them. They were absolutely against spirit spam, that's also one of the reasons some of them left.

Europe has several good guilds but of course (because of the smaller playerbase) not the depth of the US or Korea. Still I'd say we can compete and if we can hold the favor for about 20%-25% of the time, that would be sufficient enough. At least I'm trying to help as much as possible, won HoH already (not in succession to gain favor though) and will continue to try. If everybody does that, Europe certainly has chances to gain its fair share of UW and Fissure.